S7E9: "If You Want to Hear From 14-Year-Olds, Bring Pizza" — How Real Public Engagement Actually Works, with Gil Penalosa of 8 80 Cities

At ten, Gil Penalosa tried to convince his parents to let him quit school and turn pro. He was ranked second in tennis in Colombia. The catch: 99% of tennis in Colombia was played in private clubs — and Gil's family wasn't a member of any. He played on a public park court across from his house, and routinely beat the wealthy kids on their own courts. You can see the rest of the life unfolding from there. Former Parks Commissioner of Bogotá, where he helped build more than 1,000 new parks and grew the Cyclovía program from 17 km to 130 km — now adopted in 350+ cities worldwide. Founder of 8 80 Cities. Two-term chair of World Urban Parks. Runner-up in the 2022 Toronto mayoral race after entering 100 days out and pulling 100,000 votes against an entrenched political establishment. In this episode — recorded in person at the Toronto Botanical Gardens during the Urban Ravine Summit, where I'd just delivered the opening keynote — Gil and I dig into what cities already know how to do, and the courage most are missing to actually do it. We talk about why public engagement is broken in most cities, and what real listening looks like (hint: it involves pizza, juice, and a school at 3 p.m.). Why tree canopy averages mask brutal equity gaps — and the unprecedented redistribution Gil would push for if he were mayor. Why walking is the most underrated urban idea on Earth, and why "becoming a bicycle city" is the most overrated. And why elections, more than any master plan, are what actually change cities. We also talk about the dying Cyclovía he inherited as commissioner and grew tenfold; Janette Sadik-Khan's pedestrianization of Times Square; Anne Hidalgo's car-free schoolyards in Paris (350 and counting); the Texas border towns where every public school is locked at 4 p.m. while one in three children doesn't have a park within walking distance; what Tirana, Malmö, and Rotterdam are doing that more famous cities aren't; and the simple thing Gil does mid-run when his heart rate hits 145 — which I have since tried, and which works. Plus the line I haven't been able to stop replaying since we sat down: "Engagement shouldn't be tokenism. It should be real listening." Find Gil at gpenalosa.ca and 880cities.org. Sign up for his free Cities for Everyone webinar series — every other Tuesday at 11 a.m. ET.